drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  25

  Posted on Freeminds - your help pls

  by besty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  "my wife just left me yesterday and took my 2 girls.

  she's hold up in the presiding overseers (big beautiful) custom built french country house.

  i know my 14 yr is probably freeking out and my sweet little 9 year old, i know, loves her daddy.

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  drew sagan

  Without providing the details of the situation I feel there is little that can be added to this post. As Narkissos said, why did she leave? How?
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  8

  "apostates" and the internet

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure some of you have seen this, but it still makes me laugh.. .

  taken from:.

  http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/.

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  drew sagan

  I'm sure some of you have seen this, but it still makes me laugh.

  Taken from:

  http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/
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  35

  Is the "torture stake" dogma a reverse idolatry in itself?

  by JWoods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  witnesses have famously (and gleefully) tossed the usual christain "t" cross symbol overboard after having used it themselves for quite some time.

  one common arguement is that "if christ had been shot by a rifle, you would not worship the image of the gun" -.

  and yet, they do not shy away from insisting on the notion of the upright torture stake.

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  drew sagan

  The denial of orthodoxy is the Watchtower's raison d'être, making the rejection of tradition a tradition itself.
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  159

  Breaking News: Big Trouble with the Watchtower

  by Bethelite Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of weeks ago, an ex-bethelite(10 years) by the name of mel smith was disfellowshipped.

  i understand that he still lives in ny are and has a mortgage company.

  evidently, he was hurt while serving at the farm and watchtower did some horrible things to him.

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  drew sagan

  The letter is to state the date, time, and location of the meeting, and what the alleged offense is against the publisher.

  When I requested that a letter be sent to me and my wife, I recieved an extremely hostile response. He said that they don't do such a thing, and that if we refused to show up they would disfellowship us. At the same time, it was also told to me that this was "not a JC and there was nothing to worry about."

  While there may be an official protocal, what stops the Elders from breaking it? IMO the Elders basically do whatever the hell they want. The "sinner" really has no rights within the procedure, so it really doesn't matter.
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  159

  Breaking News: Big Trouble with the Watchtower

  by Bethelite Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of weeks ago, an ex-bethelite(10 years) by the name of mel smith was disfellowshipped.

  i understand that he still lives in ny are and has a mortgage company.

  evidently, he was hurt while serving at the farm and watchtower did some horrible things to him.

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  drew sagan

  That is if it's even true. It probably isn't.

  How dare you doubt an anonymous source on the Internet
• 
  27

  Convention 2009 - My best friend gets "love bombed" back in the "truth" and his sad SMS!!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was so happy when my best friend {a witness} since childhood tells me he has doubts about the org.

  and how brothers are "two faced" and the "false prophecies", and how he "needs a woman soon or he'll visit a brothel".... he had not gone to meetings for months and his mum blamed me although he didn't need much convincing.

  well we went to the convention to please family and he enjoyed the lavish attention he got from so many "loving" brothers.

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  drew sagan

  I knew a kid that was questioning everything. He quit going to meetings, was attending college, had a 'wordly' girlfriend that he lived with, and was unsure of the exsistance of god. After a few conversations with him about different topics he started to open up his mind a little. He even told me that he felt guilty for looking down on others who celebrated holidays, realizing the superficial nature of the belief.

  His mom convinced him to go to a convention where he became convinced that "the end was really close!" He began attending meetings again, dropped the girlfriend, etc.

  Funny thing is, these phases don't last too long. I'm sure he is still flip flopping between being "in" and "out", some people do that their entire lives...
• 
  159

  Breaking News: Big Trouble with the Watchtower

  by Bethelite Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a couple of weeks ago, an ex-bethelite(10 years) by the name of mel smith was disfellowshipped.

  i understand that he still lives in ny are and has a mortgage company.

  evidently, he was hurt while serving at the farm and watchtower did some horrible things to him.

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  drew sagan

  It is nice to see that many of you did your research and it turns out that he really does exist. So we at least know that some of story has been proven.

  All of the points that have been researched are basically besides the point, as they reveal nothing as to the "big trouble" mentioned in the title of this thread.

  As much as people on this particuliar message board may get excited about things that may spark the Watchtowers collapse, I personally doubt the ability of any one person who can make such an impact. The highest profile individual to leave the sect, Raymond Franz, got a one page article in Time magazine. Today, most people who read his books are people contemplating an exit from the faith (and may leave regardless of his published works anyway).

  Additinally, the sect is simply too far outside mainstream society for anyone to care about it. I'm a believer that major societal trends will have a greater impact on the stability of the organization, as opposed to temporary moments of controversial attention.
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  126

  MY BROTHER-IN-LAW HAS DIED

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is one post i had always hoped i would never have to do, but after a long and brave battle, my beloved brother in law has died.

  i have done a couple of threads on this in the past, so many of you know the battles he was facing.

  he had been diagnosed earlier this year with myelodysplastic syndrome and the mortality rate of this disease is quite high.

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  drew sagan
• 
  21

  U.S. Military Making Arrrests at G20?

  by leavingwt in

  1. social
  2. current

  warning: language in the video is nsfw.. .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8cna_vikg0.

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  drew sagan

  I can vouch for what 'read good books' is saying. What essentially happened is that there is a pedestrial bridge that crosses a main street (forbes). As the police came down to confront some protestors, students where hanging out to see what would happen. Eventually the path back up to their dorms was cut off and they were stuck breathing tear gas and all the rest. Seems like it was a real cluster____. Note to students, don't hang around police in riot gear, not a good idea.

  A professor from one of our areas colleges, Charles McCollester, was on democracy now discussing the situation. He expressed his reservations, not about the police from the city, but from the outsiders that didn't know or understand the terrain. I tend to agree.

  It would be interesting to find if we had shills here. I personally tend to believe that the people invovlved in the "protests" many times are out for their own glory, but who knows...
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  21

  U.S. Military Making Arrrests at G20?

  by leavingwt in

  1. social
  2. current

  warning: language in the video is nsfw.. .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8cna_vikg0.

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  drew sagan

  I am from Pittsburgh, and attend a university very close to where most of this stuff occurred.

  Many of these protestors came from out of town, and are itinerant "anarchists" (I use quotes, after speaking to many of them I had difficulty comprehending if they actually even comprehended what they believed in). Their actions bordered from the benign to the abusrd. For what its worth, I have my own sympathies with anarcho-syndicalism. These people give anarchy a bad name

  There was a march called the "peoples march" that faired better, with some respectable local groups participating.

  I hold no respect for those who came here just to cause trouble. Running through the streets, pushing dumpsters into lines of cops. The damage caused was minor, only about $50,000 worth. Still, most Pittsburghers had little sympathy for those who came here to fulfill their own narcissistic dreams of police state brutality.

  The "anarchists" arn't the only ones I have beef with. The local media was equally as absurd. At one point I heard a local radio station giving play by play details of a "protest" going on. They made it sound like all hell was breaking loose. Ten minutes into the broadcast you finally hear that they are tracking six people! Also, I feel that the way this was handeled by city officials was a bit suspect as well. It appeared that they wanted to use this as an opportunity to show off.

  BTW, I think that most of us here can sympathize with the protestors to some degree. Most of us used to also have a "persecution complex"!